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These are comments from the Debate Forum that do not have a name, at least first name, attached to them or do not abide by other rules of this debate forum.

Debate Rules

1) Each debate point should start with a Yes or No answer to the debate question.
2) Participants can make one Yes and/or one No debate point each day.
3) One can comment on another’s debate points, but must also make a debate point of one’s own.
5) A first name must be added to each debate point. Last name and email address are encouraged but optional. Annoyonmous comments can be found at Annoyonmous comments.
6) Moderator of the Nonviolent Worm reserves the right to edit inappropriate remarks.

Gospel of Luke — 30 August 2009, 20:55

5 And awhen 1Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him,

6 and saying, “1Lord, my servant is 3lying aparalyzed at home, fearfully tormented.”

7 Jesus *said to him, “I will come and heal him.”

8 But the centurion said, “1Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just 2say the word, and my 3servant will be healed.

9 “For I also am a man under aauthority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, ‘Go!’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.”

10 Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith 1with anyone in Israel.

11 “I say to you that many awill come from east and west, and 1recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;

12 but athe sons of the kingdom will be cast out into bthe outer darkness; in that place cthere will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 And Jesus said to the centurion, “Go; 1it shall be done for you aas you have believed.” And the 2servant was healed that very 3moment.

Nothing in here about the centurion giving up his weapons or leaving the army

Son of Liberty — 29 July 2009, 23:20

A Son of Liberty — 27 December 2008, 10:25


My father just lost his job and now you guys want to take away my means of going to this university?

Some justice…

A Son of Liberty — 29 December 2008, 22:09

In response to garrett’s comment,
“we must be sure that we distinguish here between the ROTC program and people we know in ROTC. This is not an attack on our friends who are in the program, which for many of us is a sizable number, but the principles of the program itself.”

How can you claim that your moral objection to ROTC on campus is not an attack on the cadets in ROTC? Clearly you object to what we do-which is your right-but to say you are not attacking us as you include your strong criticism of us in a forum aimed at throwing us off campus is confused at best and condescending at worse.

A man you may be familiar with said, “let your yes mean yes and let your no mean no.” Reflect on that.

Son of Liberty — 24 January 2009, 23:15


Response to Ziegler:
Manresa, J.U.S.T.I.C.E, center for conflict resolution, center for peacemaking, Campus Ministry, numerous other religious/justice organizations and the majors that concern themselves with peace and social justice all have a place at Marquette’s curricular and extracurricular programs. The argument that the ROTC is taking up space that could be used for these programs is the worst argument I have ever heard against ROTC on this campus. Ever.

Catholics who don’t like or accept the issue of selective objection don’t have to join the military. There are no trumped up issues of divided loyalty. Depriving someone else the opportunity to serve and receive an education because of your emphasis on selective objection doesn’t seem tolerant.

Response to Graf:
The phrase “In our faith…” displays the arrogance of the anti-ROTC/Peace movement who have annointed themselves the sole arbiters of what is acceptable for the rest of us who claim or try to be Catholic at Marquette University. Thank you for brining this attitude to the forefront.

Your opposition to an ROTC program coupled with your assertion that students can still receive money to go here displays your uniformed ideas about how ROTC operates, or your ability to disguise an absolute demand to throw out ROTC as a fair compromise. The money is tied directly to the participation in the military officer training program that is ROTC and the promise of military service upon graduation. If there is no program then there can be no scholarship.

Where else will ROTC be hosted? Your antiwar activist allies at UWM had ROTC thrown off its campus during the Vietnam Era, and any attmpt to move the programs to other area universities will surely be met with objections. In the final analysis, Catholics would still be violating your particular interpretation of Catholicism even if ROTC was on another campus.

A Son of Liberty — 02 February 2009, 00:03

Addendum to previous post for the sake of clarification:
The scholarship is linked to military training while in college and military service afterwards. Everyone who receives an ROTC scholarship has to participate in training at either their own school or a nearby school. The students Alverno, UWM, Mount Mary, Carroll College, Carthage College, MSOE, UW Parkway, and Concordia University come to Marquette for training in order to maintain there scholarship. If the demand to kick ROTC off campus is fulfilled, there will be no training and no scholarships at this school or any of the others, unless another military science department is established at a local college, which is highly unlikely.

I apologize for my uncivil tone.

Son of Liberty — 05 July 2009, 20:27

Probably no university would take up the three departments of ROTC. Indeed, activists at those universities (many of whom are ideologically tied with Marquette peace activists)would still protest, solving nothing.

I don’t know how many scholarships are given by all the ROTC units but if you multiply the cost of Marquette tuition and fees by the number of Marquette cadets on scholarship you would get a good but rough estimate.

Also, the protest outside the graduation mass was insulting to my mother and sister. My dad refused to notice. I however did appreciate the fact you did not protest/distupt the celebration of commissioning earlier that day and glad that you can express your views at university related events, even as you seek to drive out others from fully participating in University life.

Son of Liberty — 07 July 2009, 22:29

The Marines are a part of the Navy ROTC, therefore there are 3 departments at Marquette. Your insistence that you are “are not opposing scholarships for ROTC units at MU”
but object to the department’s presence on moral grounds and to the fact the university seems to compromise its integrity as a catholic institution by accepting money from the military tells me that regardles of whatever compromise the movement claims to offer, its vision and endstate is Marquette’s severing of all ties with ROTC. All rhetoric aside this would cause cadets/midshipmen/marine options, most of whom are practicing or at least professed Catholics, to leave Marquette. I find it galling that anyone pretends otherwise

I have gone to catholic schools since I was in kindergarten and have heard these arguments at Marquette for 4 years. I am both familiar with the theology underlying the 40+ year effort to throw ROTC off Marquette campus and the diverse and slightly shifting arguments published in the Marquette Tribune and expressed on this website.

I have no wish to communicate with you other then through this public forum.

Son of Liberty — 23 September 2009, 09:13

Pope recognizes foreign troops’ role in building peace in Afghanistan’-role-in-building-peace-in-Afghanistan

Why is first century christian not sent to the annon section but I am?

Son of Liberty — 01 October 2009, 22:55

You see? Marquette students are trying to push against ROTC

UWM doesn’t host an rotc battalion because their cadets come to Marquette’s battalion. No one has answered the question which university will become the host school for the rotc units if it is kicked out of Marquette.
Calling for ROTC to be removed from Marquette’s campus is for all practical purposes the same as banning it. Saying otherwise is misleading if not downright dishonest.

Son of Liberty — 01 October 2009, 22:56

You see? Marquette students are trying to push against ROTC

UWM doesn’t host an rotc battalion because their cadets come to Marquette’s battalion. No one has answered the question which university will become the host school for the rotc units if it is kicked out of Marquette.
Calling for ROTC to be removed from Marquette’s campus is for all practical purposes the same as banning it. Saying otherwise is misleading if not downright dishonest.

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